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10 Unsolved “Missing 411” Cases

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Support our efforts to make videos about what we want: https://www.patreon.com/toptenz/overview People go missing every single day, and unfortunately, some of their disappearances will always remain an unsolved mystery. When there’s a pattern in the type of victims that go missing, police typically believe it’s the work of a serial killer. But in the case of Missing 411, the explanation to these disappearances could be something else entirely. →Subscribe for new videos every day! https://www.youtube.com/user/toptenznet?sub_confirmation=1 Find more lists at: http://www.toptenz.net Entertaining and educational top 10 lists from TopTenzNet! Subscribe to our Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TopTenz/ Business inquiries to [email protected] Other TopTenz Videos: Top 10 Amazing Celtic Treasures https://youtu.be/XlSJjZcd0rA Top 10 Unbelievable Ways to Sneak Your Way Past Security https://youtu.be/z6eXL6JOjkg Text version: https://www.toptenz.net/10-unsolved-missing-411-cases.php Coming up: 10. Steven Kubacki 9. Maurice Dametz 8. Danny Filippidis 7. DeOrr Kunz 6. James McGrogan 5. Keith Parkins 4. Dennis Martin 3. Bobby Bizup 2. Jaryd Atadero 1. Bessie and Glen Hyde Source/Further reading: https://books.google.com/books?id=ad24ztJicWkC&lpg=PA5&dq=steven%20kubacki&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q=steven%20kubacki&f=false https://youtu.be/bQpYopdIixM https://youtu.be/cmLnuzy8cso https://youtu.be/kaZDMMnIv9E https://youtu.be/-TlGc4slOMo https://youtu.be/z5rGnutwNHs https://youtu.be/SadSOl25AV0 https://youtu.be/hot16I8jE4g https://youtu.be/5QjBFM56EC8 https://youtu.be/q7IikiFg-1U https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Missing_persons.jpg https://st.kp.yandex.net/images/film_iphone/iphone360_1029015.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/02/0f/1a020fbdf258d0e6a9f70f27d28b1608.png https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51sa-LH5%2BaL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg https://panoffolin.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/paulides_banner1.jpg https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1470444159l/31358187.jpg https://coolinterestingstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/BB5355BA-BCF8-4596-BA20-70D7CF86C6A3.jpeg https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/478950325550714880/Z8Vu788o.jpeg https://pxhere.com/en/photo/1222104 http://www.thebluediamondgallery.com/typewriter/images/amnesia.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Degree.svg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519R8IJRovL.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/14/dd/4214dd086ee2f6b370fb5aa2ae5b200b.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQpYopdIixM https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pike_National_Forest_(1).jpg https://www.flickr.com/photos/esthermax/25251499775 https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2017/06/08/17/20/arthrocalman-2384254_960_720.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515pmdl5GKL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmLnuzy8cso https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenlund/68164796
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Text Comments (609)
RD ONE (12 hours ago)
Is it wrong that I found it enjoyable
zencat55 (1 day ago)
I always shake my head when someone says a 2 year old couldn't get very far. In actuality, they can travel quite a remarkable distance. I don't think Keith traveled 15 miles by himself, though.
Joshua Patrick (5 days ago)
Hyde looks like a young Sir Ian Mckellan.
Joshua Patrick (5 days ago)
um///I would could the clothes as ripped in number 2, wouldn't consider those "intact" at all.
Joshua Patrick (5 days ago)
Unexplained is not the same as un-explainable yet so many of these cases defy logic, explanation or reason. What is left when all those things fail? Is it possible there exists in the world forces or creatures we do not understand? In a world of increasing surveillance can these mysteries finally be solved?
gigi (7 days ago)
Wow I watch your channels often, I never knew you covered missing 411! I’ve always been interested in learning about these types of disappearances. Great video!!
Adon Araphel (9 days ago)
"All the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: Enoch walked with ha'elohim(the angels; literally the gods): and he was gone; for he was taken by elohim(the angels; literally the gods)." - Genesis 5:23-24
Łukasz Tonia (9 days ago)
@David Paulides should ask some clairvoyant for help. In Poland where I come from we have a famous seer Jackowski that helped Police to solve many, many cases...
Brad Walewski (9 days ago)
fewer contrived hand gestures would be fantastic
D Ldez (10 days ago)
Wtf this dude sucks
FixitJunkie1980 (12 days ago)
13:09 Saw this story on Unsolved Mysteries. Crazy story!
Bow Hunter (13 days ago)
Who lets their kid go off with strangers? They got so involved in their hike they lost track of a kid? Wow.
Black Echo (13 days ago)
Why don't you learn how to pronounce people's names before you start a YT channel lol. Paul-eye-dis not Paul-Dees.
Kaylin Langevin (2 days ago)
I'd like to see you pronounce Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran before you comment on other peoples pronunciation.
Ginger TheNinjer (14 days ago)
There was a case where the green berets were called in to search for him. I think it was one with kid that was on the "big foots" shoulder. But I could be wrong about that. Edit: Why would the green berets be called in? I've never heard of such a thing and makes no sense lol.
Ginger TheNinjer (14 days ago)
It's weird how so many people are found without shoes and even the where hypothermia is a reason, there are cases where their shoes are found a ridiculous and impossible stretch away. Even some bodies have been found missing feet.
Juhani139 (16 days ago)
The ones about the kids are the worst. Makes me feel ill. My heart goes out to the parents.
A M (16 days ago)
12:41 there is a lot more sketch things about this case. If anyone interested danielle Hallan did a video on it One of them being that it was an adult tooth that was found
vservo (16 days ago)
The bobby bizup edit is so bad i cant believe you let this video remain un fixed
Jen Wren (16 days ago)
Ha ha haaa 😂😂😂
De (16 days ago)
You talk so fast that it takes away from the information that you are presenting which adds too other evidence collected or uncovered, it's very interesting
Rob Douglas (17 days ago)
Catholic camp for boys?
Loredana Dincu (17 days ago)
The first one walk away on his own, and return after, and also he doesn't have a degree that he done himself, he was still a student when he ,,dissapeared ",and after a year or something the college where he studied give to him the graduation diploma ,post mortem . They didn't take back his diploma when he reappeared, don't know why because he doesn't obtain that for his merits
Lilith Nakamura (17 days ago)
What if Simon’s been abducting these people to make this list, so he could get more ad revenue?
Kentucky 1950 (18 days ago)
Very interesting
itchy robot (19 days ago)
Stupid, debunked, nonsense... WTF are you doing Whistler? 🤣
Bradley Cameron (19 days ago)
Great video... just FYI he pronounces his name “paul-LI-dees”
Imagine doing all this research, but not bothering to find out how to pronounce "Paulides".
Casey Michel (20 days ago)
Damn 411 information is intense
Porcelain Slane (21 days ago)
Something is fishy in Colorado!
Felix Blacksher (23 days ago)
Did vSauce create a YouTube host archetype?
dj osearth (23 days ago)
James Mcrogan sounds like an avalanche. The Canadian guy that was found 3000 kilometres away in the USA sounds like he suffered a head trauma during a skiing accident and wound up passing out in some sort of vehicle or perhaps in a daze hitchhiked himself into someones car or was barely conscious-Man-napped. Lil Jared was a mountain Lion attack he was even heard to scream. after 4 years blood could be washed away or clothes could have come off in what little struggle poor guy had left after being pounced and dragged/carried up there for consumption.
Bob Ross The Destroyer (23 days ago)
Creepy.
Derek Vineyard (23 days ago)
Have these people go under hypnosis to see if they can recall any info about the time they went missing and cant remember!!! Its been successful before for many people!!
dj osearth (23 days ago)
Successful is a stretch. Eventful, might be more accurate but i guess it's a matter of opinion, couldn't hurt but if they start on about saucers maybe cut the session short..
Derek Vineyard (23 days ago)
Is the moral of the story to just never ever go skiing or snowboarding by yourself cuz you might just disappear for about 16 months and have no recollection of what you did or where you were....?!?
CSharp (24 days ago)
Keith Parkins-- parents let a 2-year-old play outside during the winter unsupervised? Not suspicious at all... BTW, I can't find two versions of this story that agree on all the details. And take anything Les Stroud says with a grain of salt. This is a man who believes that fallen trees are a sign of Bigfoot.
tony gilbert (24 days ago)
This is why i dont go to national parks
Kelly Mayor (25 days ago)
You must be a musician. The flight of the bumblebees comes to mind
Gravel hb (25 days ago)
Love it how people keep getting his last name wrong.
Gravel hb (22 days ago)
That would be HookBeak sir or ma'am
Groucho Marxism (23 days ago)
and the correct pronunciation of hb is ... ?
Marz Riv (25 days ago)
A 2 year old was playing outside?!? 😑
OutOfSight OutOfMind (26 days ago)
Many of these cases are badly handled, the searches were called off suspiciously quickly, even using the wrong item of clothing for the scent dogs. A few of them give you some serious pause as to whether or not the authorities are involved in some way. I'm glad you did these, though there are dozens of cases in a number of national parks in the US - most of which the person is never found - alive or dead. A significant number are of high intelligence, highly educated, and vanish within feet of other people with no sign of where they went or how they vanished. Also, there was something odd with a few of the cases where they did find remains. They would either find the body without the feet, or they would only find the feet and/or with part of the legs, but not the rest of the body. Danelle Hallan covered Jaryd's case in a fair bit of depth. The sheriff's office REFUSED help from other agencies and have been hiding some of the information from the family.
Pirate Nix (27 days ago)
These cases get to me so bad. Spending so much time in the wilderness growing up it kind of freaks me out, especially because I tended to be a wanderer and my family frequently had to tell me to stay in sight. However, I always hated camping and every family vacation we went on... we went camping, I was always miserable. Plus I had really bad anxiety since I ws a little kid. It makes me wonder if I could just feel something around me felt off. I still live in view of mountains, and it just looks so fake. It's crazy. I just want to know what happened to these people sooooo bad though. My dad still spends the majority of his time out in the wilderness, national parks and mountains; hiking, cross country skiing, mountain biking, rock climbing and all that jazz. He doesn't believe in the paranormal at all but I told him I wanted him to listen to some of these cases and tell me his thoughts but have yet to do it. I asked if he's ever had weird experiences though but they were typical like wild animal and weird sounds when he was alone and such. Nothing spooky
Aaron H. (27 days ago)
kids are small... a big enough bird could easily pick them up... when they aren't found, it's probably because the birds consumed them in a nest... a kid who is 2-3 feet tall would be a perfect size for a large eagle...
Patrick Bone (28 days ago)
Once again fantastically interesting subject. I wonder if any of the found adults had any hypnosis to try to find out what happened,
Kate Turner (28 days ago)
The real lesson here is Don't go to Colorado or anything related to it.
mgmcd1 (28 days ago)
Got it, stay away from national parks. 🤔
Jon Stokes (28 days ago)
Dude if you're going to dedicate a video to a set of books written by a particular author, take 30 second to look on the internet to ensure you pronounce his name correctly. You completely butchered it.
Joseph Izzo (29 days ago)
Didn’t Missing 411 postulate that the reason parks were national parks was specifically to hide these issues? Also, great job A story worth telling
Ranger J Snow (1 month ago)
Please learn the correct pronounciation of David's last name.
Jon Stokes (28 days ago)
Thank you!!!! You dont dedicate a video to an author's books without taking 30 seconds to search the internet to ensure you're pronouncing his name correctly.
Niki Coleman (1 month ago)
A suggestion: Look up the pronunciation of Paulides before making a video.
Marco Uribe (1 month ago)
Matrix glitch at 11:31
Richard Snow (1 month ago)
Just remember boys and girls, shiny side out on the tinfoil hat 😂
Cai (1 month ago)
I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.
Croatz (1 month ago)
at least a couple of these are sasquatch
Gene Sky (1 month ago)
Can Am Missing 411 is very interesting.
DragonJoon’s Melody (1 month ago)
So happy you did this piece Mr. Whistler. These cases of high strangeness are obviously not just batch of “YouTube creepy pasta stories” but a seemingly-unsolvable horror going on in clusters all over the U.S., which btw, occurs to so rampantly in the states of Florida & Texas that Paulides has mentioned quite a few times that he doesn’t know why that should be, but in any case,, he knew long ago he will not ever be able to do a book on those areas period simply due to how many books they would fill & that it would take more than a lifetime to research them all!? Finally, there are now the worldwide cases which are becoming more & mores recognized as true 411 cases due to the usual elements that are known to repeatedly occur to points waaayyy beyond coincidence. Some of these non-U.S. cases going on include Canada🇨🇦, the U.K. 🇬🇧 & Australia 🇦🇺. It’s so annoying how very few mainstream media channels will even acknowledge any of this...
Kristijan Petrovski (1 month ago)
#8 - Cocain... it's a helluva drug
daniel trummer (1 month ago)
I am born and raised in Wilmington ny
daniel trummer (1 month ago)
And I'll say this.all sorts of..abstract activities occur in the woods where noone can see
Dani Syx (1 month ago)
I thought sure Travis Walton would be number one
Zettel 9016 (1 month ago)
Alien abductions were never mentioned. Plus, his disappearance was too short qualify as a 411 disappearance.
Wubba Wubba (1 month ago)
How did Maurice Dametz get out of earshot within 10 minutes? Especially since he had a hard time moving on his own? If a mountain lion or bear attacked him he would’ve been screaming. There would’ve been blood. It would’ve been obvious; so that doesn’t explain it. It’s like he just walked into another dimension. These are fascinating cases and thank you to David Paulides for bringing their missing person cases back into the public eye.
Micro Piggy (1 month ago)
Hmmm... people go missing in national parks... and it's usually followed by 3-4 days of bad weather... sounds like a predator living in the parks... who feels the bad weather coming, and decides to snatch an easy snack before the bad weather sets in...
Micro Piggy (1 month ago)
@Matthew Cobalt ya could be... many people end up on the menu...
Matthew Cobalt (1 month ago)
In addition, most local officials tend to hid the fact from the public to avoid funding withdrawl to their communities.
Matthew Cobalt (1 month ago)
Micro Piggy Seems possible. Kidnapping people as a warning to those who visit National Parks to leave them alone. But since those people usually don’t understand that National Parks are tourist destinations and public hiking locations, those warnings tend to fall on deaf ears.
Micro Piggy (1 month ago)
@Matthew Cobalt Ya... i've heard similar stuff... but it could also be satanists... sacrificing children... and then spreading stories about bigfoot....
Matthew Cobalt (1 month ago)
It’s a well know “secret” between National Park rangers that “Wild Men” tend to live in these areas “off-grid.” It is a rare but horrifying occurence when loved ones (most highlighted being children) being taken from their family’s camp site. The national park service, local communities and (supposedly) some journalists and news organizations won’t talk about it publicly.
tracy 511 (1 month ago)
Who the hell would let a 2 year old walk bAck on his own
Nomadby Nature (1 month ago)
I found a 350ct topaz in that spot once. I didn't go missing though.
jenky1044 (1 month ago)
David "Paul-eye-deez" "Less" Stroud (not Lee)
CrazyBear65 (1 month ago)
How now, Brown Cow?
Haven Sabaini (1 month ago)
Crazy, weird! So many of these in Colorado...where I live!
theindian mom (1 month ago)
An ad cut out rest of the story about Maurice Dametz.😣
Patricia Emery (1 month ago)
TO firefighter: must have been a head injury.
I. Wynn Wynn (1 month ago)
Please show content only and not your ugly, old, and hairy face and your ugly bald head! You also need to wear contacts
Yak Squad (1 month ago)
This is real I lived in Oregon most of my life and so many times on the news missing people all the time. Many never found. When they did find them 3or 4 days later they were nearly dead. I have been a climber and hiker and know the rules of the forest. 1 never go off trail. 2 never alone 3 food and water 4 if you go off trail mark your. Tree with a ribbon only if it is 10 ft or so.
Jae Caesar (1 month ago)
The first one was really interesting (and kinda scary). My brother and I have both gotten lots of concussions (his have been worse) and sometimes he’ll forget whole weeks worth of events.
1337fraggzb00N (1 month ago)
„May the forest be with you!“ - Luke Lumberjack
baronflemp (1 month ago)
To me it sound that most of there are just people getting lost, panic, get into shock and get lost and disappear or get eaten by animals. The ones that go missing for a long time seems to follow the previously mentioned scenario but probably have a underlying mental disorder than get triggered by the situation that they will not get out from without medical help. Just because the probability to wander away and survive, and people not being able to find them the x times they looked before is not strange it's actually statistically inevitable that it will occur. There is a reason why you always will look through areas many times, its because its easy to look at the wrong things (same things) walking through an area. Why magical nonsens should be the answer is beyond me.
SlavSupreme (1 month ago)
The issue with the whole animal theory, is that all of the cases Dave presents have already had that theory ruled out. Often times the cause of death (when they find a body) is indeterminate and when they don’t, they find articles of clothing or other items without any damage and often arranged in neat piles or patterns...
Gabriel Aderre (1 month ago)
Call me crazy, but I'd wager that a few of these disappearances are linked to the Fey. There's a reason that many people of Old Europe avoided places that were known Fey haunts. In some countries, I imagine that this is still the case. People act like people who lived centuries ago were all superstitious fools, which really wasn't always the case.
Amateur0Visionary (1 month ago)
Thinking that any or all of these cases are related is likely a mistake. Things happen. People go crazy. Animals kill people. There's not necessarily any reason to expect correlation. And, yes, the first case does sound like dissociative fugue. It's a fairly rare condition, and not all cases are understood completely.
Amateur0Visionary (1 month ago)
@D. B. I don't know if you're referring to the first part of my comment or the second, but I'll reply to both. First, yes, I've not done enough research. I've only read one of his books and listened to about 6 hrs of interviews of him on C2C and the like. I am not super well versed in it. I have read up on a few of the more famous cases. I understand how one could infer something supernatural. But given the preponderance of the evidence, it's unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. Animal attacks or madness are known and proven to happen. Ever watched a body decay in the woods? Happens faaaar quicker than most would think. Vultures, hogs, dogs, bugs, they all take pieces. And quickly. As to the second part, also yes. I have 2 years of psych study at uni, and a lot more in my spare time. I know VERY little. That's not sarcasm. People spend lifetimes on this stuff. And several of the ones that have, also think that DF is likely in this case. All that being said, i may very well be wrong. This is simply my somewhat informed opinion. Much love!
D. B. (1 month ago)
@Amateur0Visionary you obviously haven’t done enough research. That’s just an easy and lazy statement...
striker1553 (1 month ago)
I listened to a c to c am interview and looked up a case David talked about in Michigan. It was in the 70s and he mentioned details about rivers, state forest areas, and towns that surrounded this 15 yo's disappearance. Also discussed details of how well he was dressed and weather conditions (snow, cold, etc.). The funny thing was he talked about a river, town, and state forest area that were hundreds of miles apart from each other. Got details of how well the boy was dressed wrong, and even got the weather incorrect. I give him the benefit of cognitive dissonance, but he got so much stuff wrong it wasn't even funny. The 15 year old boy unthinking ran after a wounded deer poorly dressed, in 6 inches of snow, and into a thickly wooded swamp. Yet he disappeared mysteriously? Talk about a recipe for disaster.
DogGone Natural (1 month ago)
Listening to these stories are scarier than ghost stories! I don't know what is happening, but the fact of the matter is that strange going ons happen in our national parks and it seems like the forest service is complicit somehow. Even if it's just bad record-keeping.
Transcendent Studios (1 month ago)
Don’t believe for a moment that this is anything more than sensationalism to sell the story better
Transcendent Studios (1 month ago)
Kidnap, murder... the usual extreme human behaviour. Given that there is no evidence that anything supernatural took place it therefore cannot be implied. Simple logic
Anna B (1 month ago)
And your explanation for the disappearances is...what?
Orla (1 month ago)
You have to remember that there are thousands of human remains that have been found but haven’t been placed.
Tricia W (1 month ago)
What's 411 ??
Irina Phoenix (1 month ago)
I mean isn't the reason why things were not seen before or strangely preserved probably because they were covered in ice and snow?
The Reel Angler (1 month ago)
I read these books. There are some things that are pretty strange. The strangest thing is the National Parks Service and the Dept the Interior dont keep records of missing people within the parks. Of course, that would probably hurt park attendance.
Orla (1 month ago)
The Reel Angler the NPS absolutely does keep records. Whether they’re public or not is a matter of local laws.
OssamabinKenny (1 month ago)
It is pronounced "poe lie des". Also, why not look up the smily face killers ?
Swissffun Nani (1 month ago)
oh please. DeOrr was killed by his skanky mom.
RocKiteman _ 2001 (1 month ago)
@TopTenz >>> Why did this video jump between 11:32 and 11:33?
A Marie (2 months ago)
Love 411 videos! Tried to get the books in the UK but cant😦
yamswole (2 months ago)
Read the split snowboard guy mcgrowgan as well. 40 miles away. How?!
yamswole (2 months ago)
I love his books. I remember reading the story where the old guy went looking for topaz but vanished while having bad knees. And then Danny Flipadus
pacsoul Pavon (2 months ago)
Im from colorado amd alot of these storys are from here😐
Amber Oien (18 days ago)
There must be an inter dimensional portal in Colorado.
pacsoul Pavon (2 months ago)
The story of keith parkings also reminds me of a story of one of my uncles when he was 3 years old my grandma lost him when he was outside playing and found him about 3 miles into the forest ! It was impossible for him to go that far on his own! 3 years later when he was six the same thing happened but this time he was about 5 miles in the forest , he was abel to speak and he said that 2 little boys smaller then him invited him to go play by the river but when he was following them they just disappeared and left him in the forest.
pacsoul Pavon (2 months ago)
The forest are dangerous. My great grandma and my aunty from mexico( my auntie was only 13 years old at the time) went to another town but on the way they had to cross a river , they stayed for a while in town because it was raining and when they where going back home it started to get dark and the river had grown more because of the rain . my auntie and great grandma desided to stay by the river and sleep untill the next morning (to them that was normal ) , when they woke up they where on the other side of the rive !! My auntie herself told me the story and she said the forest can trick you and make you go in circles, but she cant explain how they ended up on the other side of the river . Btw im from colorado and ive herd about most these storys.
Cliff (2 months ago)
I want to thank you for your precise,straight forward delivery. No boring,monotone computer voice .
Kraniumbrud (2 months ago)
Ithaqua hunts when the hunger takes him.. do not forget to feed the wind, or it will feed on you.
Ross Jones (2 months ago)
I love these cases and have purchased a few of Davids books. Great topic!
Joe Church (2 months ago)
#4 the Martin's are my next door neighbors. Mr Bill Martin was an architect and Mrs violet is a sweet lady. Bill passed away from brain cancer 2 years ago and never did find out what happened to Dennis. Sad story..
Will McReavy (2 months ago)
Many of these sound like they have something to do with Cole shock, particularly the one where they took their jacket of in an icy puddle which is pretty common before death apparently
Casey 3-P-O (2 months ago)
i wonder if maybe that first guy who was missing for 14 months was just lying. wouldn’t that be the most simple explanation? maybe he decided to do something shady and changed his mind. like maybe he wanted to fake his death, leave his family behind and start over. but then he changed his mind due to the guilt. cuz it’s kinda convenient that he ended up in the same city that some of his family lived in. or maybe he even did something really bad like killed someone, so he faked his death. and then when he realized he wasn’t suspected of any crimes, he came back. who knows, but i’m just saying...it seems a bit fishy.
Casey 3-P-O (2 months ago)
or maybe he’s CIA!!!
Thomas Luczak (2 months ago)
Whats the answer ? I don't believe in the paranormal. fascinating.
Jonathan Gonzales (1 month ago)
Portals caused by electromagnetic fields. maybe.
Tyrone Malone (2 months ago)
When these missing people are found and they're deceased. Just about every single person is missing their shoes. Just a thought but shoes and socks carry so much bacterial matter....
Zack Tenney (2 months ago)
No one says his last name right
dizzybynature (2 months ago)
i wonder how many of these stories or similar stories are caused by someone simply injecting them with a knock-out drug.. im not sure i want to know what happened to them during the "blank" stages of their stories..

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