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Full Debate | How Men and Women Think | Helena Cronin, Gina Rippon, Simon Baron-Cohen

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Are mental differences between the sexes real? Many neuroscientists believe disorders of the mind will be solved when we understand the differences between the male and female brain. Yet it is frequently argued that men and women are not born but made. Are mental differences between the sexes real, or is this just sexism dressed up as science? Cambridge psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, Darwinian philosopher Helena Cronin and eminent neuroscientist Gina Rippon investigate. #gender #politics #iai #feminism #neuroscience #nature Watch the whole debate: http://iai.tv/video/how-men-and-women-think Be in the audience: https://howthelightgetsin.iai.tv/ See what else we have on social media: https://www.facebook.com/theinstituteofartandideas https://twitter.com/IAI_TV https://www.instagram.com/instituteofartandideas DELVE DEEPER Read an article: https://iainews.iai.tv/articles/the-death-of-sisterhood-auid-505 Listen to a podcast: https://soundcloud.com/instituteofartandideas/e52-politics-and-the-patriarchy-angela-eagle Sign up for a course: https://iai.tv/iai-academy/courses/info?course=sexuality-and-power And if you really fancy it, subscribe!
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Text Comments (94)
Rene Descartes (7 days ago)
WOW! This Gina Rippon is an ideologue. Simon Baron-Cogen did not want to start a fight. I’ve read his books and he is very CLEAR that there are deep differences in the brains of Males and Females. For people like me, that have been around in this earth for some time, we KNOW that men and women are different in many ways, so please, do not invite ideologues to this kind of discussions. They should be for the learning of people, not for spreading false ideologies. Helena Croning presentation was also right. Biology is a huge part of human behavior. Period!
slayer 1 (5 months ago)
I think this debate from a backseat point of view the women have nothing to lose in general maybe something specific but in general it's kind of like if we have something the woman needs we try to give it to her she says no I will get it on my own and then if she doesn't get it she still has you for backup it is a win-win situation again I am not quoting on anything specific this is an extremely generalized opinion
slayer 1 (5 months ago)
If girls can't do math why are there so why are there so many cashiers I would say they don't do math in the same aggressive manner as a man with but yes they most definitely do know how to do math they own houses don't they they own cars don't they which means they pay bills don't they which means they do math right
Will Xu (5 months ago)
So the effects of testosterone don't matter? Trying to shove the fact that men and women are the same makes no scientific sense. Testosterone = more risks and cares less about younger children, more aggressive, more physical; lower testosterone = opposite reactions. Men have high testosterone, women have less. There is a difference.
Ben Young (6 months ago)
It seems Simon Baron-Cohen, Darwinian philosopher Helena Cronin are very objective in there thinking but Gina Rippon seem try and shape findings to fit her thinking. Telling girls they can't do maths really, most teacher are women and the same can also be said with boys in english.
Aditya Sharma (8 months ago)
Y make it a debate on Feminism!!! Shd have stuck to the actual topic.
erhaveas (8 months ago)
Feminism: men and women are not different , yet only men should get killed in wars and work in sewers and cannot be a non working spouse, and only women should get alimony and be okay to be non working spouse. - "So biology is useful" - if it serves women. Men can keep dying in wars.
silver starlight (7 months ago)
erhaveas I agree. Women should be allowed in the army. And they should be encouraged to become taxi drivers, plumbers, electricians etc. These are better jobs than becoming house maids.
Jack Crow (8 months ago)
The most telling moment is part three when he ask to sketch out a future, and she replies nothing will changes in evolution in 100 years and people scoff. All you need you. Such an obvious point is lost on the religious left (PC).
Jack Crow (8 months ago)
This is similar to Harald Eias "Brainwashed" series, episode 1. The "left" (american left) panelist seem to chose what science and questions "interest" them.
Jason (8 months ago)
Gina's algorithm: 1: Notice a truth that she doesn't like based on an arbitrary reason, despite consensus from the wider scientific community. 2: Paint a low resolution image of the evidence behind the truth (bonus points for labelling a truth as sexist). 3: Reference a barely cited study or an article that sounds like it supports what she wants to be true. 4: loop
Pizz Uff (8 months ago)
Arthur Nowr (8 months ago)
You're absolutely right Helena Cronin, Gina Rippon tried to sleight the basis of your argument by labelling it 18th century. She definitely said it and she said it for a reason: to smear any counter argument based on evolutionary biology.
Robin Thrush (8 months ago)
The second someone says there's no real difference in the sexes I become wary. When they say there's not a binary I dismiss them.
Jemase (8 months ago)
Why does Gina run babbling off into the ether instead of just answering a question?
Sev King (9 months ago)
Yes there are elements of what the feminist mentions in the overall result pertaining to female/male salary/job choice. However, she implies this is the entirety of the explanation of the difference. It’s not, it’s but one variable. Likely 2-6 percent of all the variables. That leaves 94-98 percent of the variables that need to be explained by other factors.
Tracey Glazebrook (9 months ago)
The fact that people use 'gender' instead of 'sex' now tells of a pervasive ideology having wormed it's way into our culture.
Wisdom of Nod! (9 months ago)
Women don't think
WiggaMachiavelli (10 months ago)
Rippon is being disingenuous with the use of language. She says that men and women are not substantially different because other factors function in the same way regardless of those categorisations; she says that the categories are not meaningful because there is no absolute, qualitative distinction between them. Note her response re: the corpus callosum: she says that there are no differences in it when comparing men to women, because what directly determines the difference is not restricted to one category. Male and female as categories have reliable predictive power (which is precisely why they are, quite undeniably, meaningful and informative categories). There is no getting away from that, and she makes no attempt to do so, because she knows that it would fail. There are aggregate differences predicted by sex in the corpus callosum. She did not and cannot deny that - and she does not want the audience to notice!
GSS1314 (10 months ago)
"What is tetris " Oh boi.
Michael Shannon (11 months ago)
Denial. In almost every aspect of life, where choice is involved, men and women distinctively differ. How we engage, what we think is important, our pursuits, our physiology, politics, academia, in every facet we see clear differences. And its always women who push the 'we are pretty much the exact same' agenda. I wonder why...
Billy Bob (11 months ago)
What's Tetris... Mindblown
Mermaid Life (1 year ago)
I’d love to reach through and choke that dumb bitch
june kilmister (1 year ago)
What is this? I don't need all these studies and science to tell me men and women are different, what a waste of time!
valentin65 (1 year ago)
Many neuroscientists commit a fallacy when insisting you should adjust the brain for body size. E.g. When you push an object by a certain amount of force you must divide by the mass to get the resulting accelaration. On the other hand when two cars might hit you in traffic travelling at the same speed you want to choose the lighter one. No need to relate one dimension to another one. So stating you always have to relate brain mass to body mass implies you really understand the brain perfectly.
valentin65 (1 year ago)
Yeepee! Men are smarter!
Sev King (9 months ago)
Yes there are elements of what the feminist mentions in the overall result pertaining to female/male salary/job choice. However, she implies this is the entirety of the explanation of the difference. It’s not, it’s but one variable. Likely 2-6 percent of all the variables. That leaves 94-98 percent of the variables that need to be explained by other factors.
Sev King (9 months ago)
valentin65 And dumber at the same time
H LV (1 year ago)
The neourscientist did not consider the fact that males might also be subject to "stereotype threats" when it comes to learning non STEM fields. The entire discussion was about women and what choices they will/can or won't/cannot make given the pressures of evolution and culture. No one in the panel ever mentioned that men in the 21st century might also be unfairly constrained by cultural expectations and disadvantaged by evolution.
Simeon Banner (1 year ago)
Ah hour in a bar in Birmingham on Saturday night can tell you more than an academic in five minutes.
Private Frey (1 year ago)
Have some hot female fashion models give thier opinions. Dumbass "academics". LMAO. What a bunch of idiots. See: Men are from Mars Women fron Venus- author to tell you straight up whats going on in a straight forward non- condecending way. Of course, was a guy who wrote the books.
John Hazlett (1 year ago)
The problem isn't whether or not whether or not men and women are different. The problem is that there are those who believe that these differences are somehow the determination of value in people. Sadly today there is such vitriol at the possibility, it is difficult to explore the possibilities with any clarity. I have two boys and two girls. They all had the same toys, but played with them radically different without any input from the parents. So the two extremes, men and women are pretty much the same, or so radically different, that there is not chance of working out the differences. Excuse me, I had very poor eyesight, and I was sent to a special school. No, the problem wasn't solved until all the facts were acknowledged. Sadly in this day and age, instead of being honest about the differences, these are at best minimized, to men being treated like trash. Just as people with language issues, or ability issues need to be acknowledged in order to get a proper diagnosis and treatment for all sorts of social and marital issues, so does the obvious differences between men and women.
This Is my opinion . Apple's and oranges are both fruits but are they the same ?? No . In the same way males and females are both humans , but they aren't the same
We should never forget about "differences" that is illogical
Yonathan Febri (1 year ago)
0:35 jarvis, is that you?
punkfluff64 (1 year ago)
in the long term that 50 women/1 man vs 50 men /1 woman article is moot because of genetic abnormalities and dysfunction related to inbreeding and the the intersection of similar gene patterns. The evolutionary advantage is a negative one in both scenarios. If anything early humans would have benefitted from fewer children (large groups a liability to nomadic humans), born at less frequent intervals to facilitate higher likelihood of breeding outside of the group and decrease risk of inbreeding and hereditary illness (i.e. the 50 men, 1 woman scenario). Stupid reductionist proxy argument. I'd expect more from someone who makes a specialism of evolution. The evolutionary aim of high levels of parental care is for children to survive to sexual maturity and ensure propagation of genes. That's why humans adopt K strategy patterns of parental care to begin with.
Padraic loingsigh (1 year ago)
Read a book called "a woman speaks" by Anise' Nin, then go learn about Zelda Fitzgerald, Aka Zelda Sayre FFS I think these people are to masculine, cause they have no intuition, lol!
Padraic loingsigh (1 year ago)
He's using anecdotal arguments at 18:?? Is the jackass guy on the left a moderator or is a 3 vs 1 debate?
Padraic loingsigh (1 year ago)
She is equating the fact that women are attracted to strong men with the idea that somehow that implies they should be more aggressive. Do men in our society generally eat more meat? maybe that could effect behavior. These people are simpletons.
Padraic loingsigh (1 year ago)
I love how upper body strength being greater somehow implies that men evolved to compete with each-other and not to ward off predators and carry food, since women biologically have to carry children in pregnancy, of course they need a strong partner who can't get pregnant, what the fuck does that have to do with behavior in general. If anything women would have to be more aggressive in order to defend themselves when there are no males present. Have you ever seen a woman who is an expert martial artist? oh but she has to be an exception not the rule, it's not that she's only the exception because society trains men and woman different. These people are cherry picking like crazy, I'm 15 minutes into the debate and they have already lost just based on their own absurd statements.
Padraic loingsigh (1 year ago)
Disadvantage??? um, I don't think these people have herd of overpopulation. Also why does it have to be 50 wives and 50 husbands? What about fostering diversity? It was probably more like people were fucking each-other without worrying about competing, because without society why would there need to be competition, and why would people need to be so afraid of each other, how did that come about? And no advantage? what if the one man is infertile? her logic is a bit absurd in a lot of ways.
Niall Owens (1 year ago)
Orange and lemon peels are not that different either, they have the exact same atoms, and yet they hve very different properties (eg smell). It's almost as if minor differences, in this case they're mirror images of each other, can make a big difference in the end.
Robin Thrush (8 months ago)
And a space traveler, but not much beyond that.
Niall Owens (1 year ago)
Also, the feminist trope of being dismissive of Barbie is ridiculous, she has basically held every position feminists want women to dominate (CEO, scientist, president, astrounaut, etc). What position has the male alternative (He-man) held? Well he's been a muscle-bound barbarian-looking king, and ....
ellie rain (1 year ago)
It's so funny - I was trying to figure out why people don't take this seriously yet (they will), I mean, these guys are all academics. . . Of course! Psychology is coming from the feminine (health/education//holistic) paradigm, rather than the decidedly masculine ; ) dualistic philosophical constructs upon which we build society and politics, only considered valuable, and in which we have been taught the only "real" solutions lie - as if! We don't think of psychology as equally legitimate because we haven't acknowledged the feminine association - and then authority over - that paradigm!
Casper Bjerkehagen (1 year ago)
Get to the point!!!! intrested in the differences not similarities obviously
Scott Kirk (1 year ago)
Not all American boys are being "Broken" into the matriarchy of chaos and violence of the inner cities..."equally",.The white -liberal-capital gains children get to keep their safe-orderly-educated patriarchal environments for themselves, while the black community get "Broken" into a matriarchy on a massive scale. Google MGTOW.
Francis Fawkes (1 year ago)
In Ephesians, it is written that the man is head of the woman, as Christ is the head of the church. God's true intention is for man to lead and to be the priest of his household. A woman of God is supposed to be a help mate rather than a competitor. Remember, that when Adam was alone in the Garden of Eden, God cloned a carbon copy of him from his own rib. IS THE CLONE SUPERIOR TO ORIGINAL? I THINK NOT. A woman also needs the protective covering of the male surrounding her. A woman and a man are co-equals but their roles are different. When a woman dominates and puts down a man, that is the spirit of Jezebel or the spirit of witchcraft. That is exactly Satan's intention in order to bring down society. Men, a woman is like a mirror. You get out of her what you put into her 23,459
philip schuster (1 year ago)
The more Gina speaks against biological influences in gender, the more feminine her facial expression, tone of voice and gestures appear. If she were male, everyone would view her as extremely effeminate for a man. There are definitely biological factors.
Alex Plante (1 year ago)
When you look at averages, there are obvious innate differences between men and women, so in that sense I agree Bara-Cohen and Cronin, but then society develops stereotypes based on those observed differences, which probably makes it such that gender-atypical individuals are discriminated against, so in that since Rippon has a point.
mcnyregrus (5 months ago)
And I think the others agreed with this, like I do. Since there are only two genders, and our eyes and minds only see two genders (or 31, if you're in New York City), we will automatically try to fit that person into this category, even though there's endless individual variation. But that's how the brain works - it runs on autopilot almost all the time. If it didn't, life would be incredibly hard.
NYC1E1 (1 year ago)
Men and women are different, get over it. Saying that the differences are so small that we shouldn't even consider them as differences is stupid. You can Clearly see with your own eyes that men and women are different. Humans and monkeys share up to 99% of the same DNA so does that mean that we're not different? If you had two paintings, both the same size, painted on the same type of canvas, with the exact paint colors and brush, by the same artist but one painting was of a city and the other of an open field are both painting the same? I like to think of men and women like the two sides of the same coin call humanity.
morthim (1 year ago)
TL;DW: lots of postmodern stupidity stuck in the mud of the 1960s. the far left woman's position is a strawman of the topic. she says there isn't structure differences but size differences. conceding the argument. she compromised her acceptance of the facts to be compatible with her ideology. she explicitly mentioned that she wasn't talking about medial differences, but more at holistic lack of overlap. but again, that isn't the argument. the argument isn't that men and women are more different than similar. the argument has a variety of equivocable claims, one of which is "does neuro medicine impact both genders the same way?" and the answer is no, you must account for gender in your trials because what works for one may not work for the other. it isn't even body mass based dosage distinction, nor androgen interference, this method just doesn't work often enough that we should ignore the factor. teh phillosopher on the far right was mostly correct. low utility arguments generally, but mostly correct. the male on the left was speaking hodgepodge, but i don't remember it off hand. the male moderator was feminist leaning. overall the "debate" was 3 on 1. and it was more of an ideologically compromised monologue than a debate. there was a discernible lack of criticism. there is diference in size more than new organs, but the difference in size isn't difference simply difference in scale. if men are 20% larger then their brains would be 20% more scaled up, right? androgens actually change teh size of each individual structure so teh vollume isn't similarly distributed for randomly gathered members. it is like in more basal biology being abel to identify gender of a skeleton by the hips. yeah both men and women have hips/hip, but you still have different structure. beyond that, the are gender exclusive structure(s).
NickooG (1 year ago)
Gina Rippon is not a scientist. She is an ideologue trying to fit science into her ideology instead of fitting her ideology into science.
Morpheus X (1 year ago)
It seems as if Gina Rippon's entire argument seem to be little more than the Moralistic Fallacy and cherry picking activist research that reinforces her preferred sociopolitical narratives.
slayer 1 (5 months ago)
Morpheus X apparently only 12 men understood what the hell you just said. I know they can understand this; LMFAO!!!
Stephen Catton (1 year ago)
Helena Cronin is absolutely right. People forget how important biology is and how it shapes us and affects us and how we think. Gina Rippon is what you get when you mix an intelligent woman and feminist theory...
Stephen Catton (1 year ago)
+Wordsof Harmony > then can i suggest that there is more to it than just Testosterone which shapes us at the biological level. After all, identical twins who grow up together can quite often become very different people. I am not sure that I agree with your wording or conclusions regarding agricultural societies. I see both roles as important as the other. In these societies, physical strength is important for some tasks and childbearing and rearing require different abilities. It must be the women who give birth, play the major role in bringing the children up and looking after the home. It is normally the man who does the physical labour where strength is important. Both of these roles are best for each other and mostly, for providing an environment for bringing up children. I also don't agree with you that it leads to women without rights and men with rights. I see it more as a class issue for both men and women. Only in societies where religion and law are combined do we see most women and men as second class citizens. In most western cultures if there is a problem it is a class problem, not a sexist problem.
Wordsof Harmony (1 year ago)
Stephen Catton there is biological differences but hormonal expression and environment can play a big role too. But the real issue I have is...how Testosterone can lead one to be bigger or cause one to be a better hunter better protector (as the usual argument goes) but doesnt account that Men end up also being more prone to aggression and this is a "male" hormone. Women more inclined to be cooperative empathetic and nurturing. They end up getting seen as weaker and expected to be accommodating. But it doesn't account the pervasiveness of Male dominated agricultural societies and leading women to be without rights or say be sexually at the whim of men and be second class citizens or does it?
daniel lopez (1 year ago)
Sorry Gina, but you can`t be feminist and neuroscientist at the same time.
5tonyvvvv (6 months ago)
GO MGTOW! Leave these worthless self centered Cunts alone!
Roy D (7 months ago)
@Antisjwbaby Baby Yes ofcouse , just lie and mislead others,
Ellie (2 years ago)
I've never been told that I can't do math as well as boys. And a teacher has never indicated there is a gender difference. How are we able to tell that there are, on average, girls growing up believing that they are for example worse at math and that most around them hold that belief? Am I an outlier? Was Gina trying to say that we already have these ideas? Beliefs are created, are they not? And beliefs from younger years, when you're growing up, are easier to change, right?
Clopen (2 years ago)
This Gina Rippon... absolutely worthless.
blinnc22 (2 years ago)
The mediator is a complete tosser. He winds up interrupting and diminishing the speakers' comments.
Roy D (7 months ago)
He is a beta male! Soy boy!
HitomiAyumu (1 year ago)
blinnc22 I was about to say that. He needs to shut up.
brent james (2 years ago)
I can tell Gina Rippon has penis envie. She kept saying there is very little difference between men and women, and children can be morphed at early ages to be a gender balanced human being. This same kind of thinking is what ruined Sweden, through feminist Marxis ideology. In order for woman to be truly equal to men you'd have to dumb down men and have them be willing slaves in the workforce of hard labour. Oh wait! There is a place that is trying this. western Society. especially Canada, USA, England, Sweden and Australia.
jamada d (9 months ago)
Aga Guzik A question. Why don't we have 50% for the male teachers? And 50% male management in Education and schools? Boys need the role models? Aren't they?
jamada d (9 months ago)
Aga Guzik Right. All dirty jobs are still done by men. There is no # to push women in dirty work. All production is done by men. All services done by women. And now we need to make sure we are equal, we need women to manage the construction workers and IT professionals. Because women cannot build! But we need 50% women there. So they will be managing males.
Aga Guzik (1 year ago)
Insecure a bit? Ruined how? Dumber? First of all this video does not discuss differences in thinking but differences biologically & culturally and how those affect behavior not thought process. Second of all, Sweden is a very healthy society. You can live how you wish but making broad, inaccurate statements without any sort of data or specific argument makes you appear rather ignorant and weak.
Ando Rexurix (2 years ago)
Oh my. You hit the jackpot. You can't overlook the genetic and biological differences, we think differently, we act differently, we are different.
Stone Ro (2 years ago)
I agree and disagree with both women, there are sex differences, but i believe it is for the most part social gender differences and less so biological differences when it comes to personality and behavioral differences and other things not including stick physical biological differences (strength for example)
calsitup (2 years ago)
People like to generalise about differences between men and women. Some people if they notice some differences would say they have nothing in common. This is ridiculous. If you were closer to the stereotype you would probably agree with generalised differences. As a man would go along with Gina Rippon
Stefan (2 years ago)
The woman on the left does not have a clue. Either that or she just refuses to accept science. She talked about culture and gender gaps near the beginning. If one looks at the post-industrial countries that are extremely egalitarian, what one notices is that their life choice differences differ more than in developing countries. For example, in Norway nearly all the engineers are men and all the nurses are women. Women in Norway are not held back whatsoever in doing what they want to do. Men and women are different, and on average, they make different life choices. But for some reason it's politically incorrect to say that.
Galaxy Rhen (2 years ago)
Very good debate. I think we all agree that that biology plays a role in separating the two sexes, but I also agree that I think culture plays a bigger role than we give it credit for. I really love the term "plastic brain." I think that is the perfect way to describe the ego in today's society. Thank you for posting this.
Anarchon (2 years ago)
"Stereotype threat" is bollocks, never heard my math teacher make differences between girls and boys, its also something which like a lot of liberal arguments cannot be proven as it exists within the realm of "feels". Same as racism, someone is bad towards you and has a different skin color? He must be racist they say, but the motivations of people's actions cannot be proven and you sure as hell shouldn't construct your entire worldview on them. This is why liberals are not in touch with reality, they are Marxist's who disregard reality in order to maintain their moronic worldview. Women and men are different from each other, in their physical shape and in their mental activity. Imagine you have two sexes and one sex has cocaine being released from the brain, their behavior will be extremely different. The sex on cocaine will be confident, aggressive, motivated, sharp, ruthless maybe. The other sex not on cocaine will be far more mellow and "slow" in their mental activity and motivation. Men have a chemical that has similar effects, its called testosterone and we have it in quantities 20 times larger than females so obviously our behavior will be different because our brains are on different drugs. Testosterone and estrogen. Every person has different levels of these chemicals sure, and there is probably a bell curve showing the majority to have very similar numbers and then two extremes on both ends. But as the old adage goes "the exception does not negate the rule". So making categorizations is useful because we solve problems by pattern recognition. If humans didn't have pattern recognition we would have all died from being killed by the same animal species, but because we have pattern recognition we know to stay clear from some animals. If we see within the data and within our own daily experiences a difference between the sexes then that difference exists and basing decisions on that information is not immoral. Its part of our survival mechanism. Imagine if you had a doctor who is investigating an illness like Dr Cohen and you see that the disease is 85% more likely to appear in boys, that's a pattern. Now if you were a Marxist doctor you would probably ignore the sex out of the equation because it would be "'discriminatory" but overriding your natural pattern recognition mechanisms in an effort to be politically correct will handicap you in the pursuit of knowledge in this world. Marxists believe that every human is a blank slate and can be molded into anything, these are the people that were talked about in 1984 and Brave New World. If your behavior will not be in line with their worldview they will pathologize you and subsequently order you to be re-educated because they believe its possible to change your psyche by what is literally brainwashing. For instance, you accept that homosexuals exist but you don't agree with their life choice? That's no longer just an opinion but it becomes a basis for discrimination (in their opinion) and as long as these thoughts exist they form a possible threat to the well being of homosexuals. This entire vision of theirs is based on assumptions of course. Now once they have pathologized your thoughts and deem them immoral they can now in good conscience view you as a criminal. Its literally thought crime. Leftism is heading in this direction, books have been written about it some 50 years in the past and now all of this is unfolding in front of our eyes yet everybody goes along with it.
Controlled Confidence (2 years ago)
the women on the left is a undercover feminazi, the people on right take a sip of their water confidently 32:30 because they know they can rebuke that argument easily
Redwald Cuthberting (5 months ago)
Gina doesn't ahve a leg to stand on.
Josh Head (2 years ago)
I love how that each of the debaters.. on the question of weither their opinions are common.... believe they aren't and that every average person believes the opposite of what they believe. no atter5 who was ask.
Aquarian Christianity (2 years ago)
I agree with Dr. Cronin. There are definite differences that are biological between both.
Stephen Catton (1 year ago)
Yes.. i did notice how the pay gap and VAT on tampons found their way into the debate
Aquarian Christianity (2 years ago)
"Male and female created he them." The other guests are just sexist feminists. It's amazing how "social structures" inform our science.
WhyT (2 years ago)
The moderator is an idiot. "So biology is useful at last", when everybody had just told him that it's social and cultural influences, such as different ways of education, that shape minds and brains.
johnny justice (1 year ago)
+CzechRiot Nothing of what you've said contradicts the OP's criticism of the moderator. So you're way out of line calling him an idiot. The OP isn't saying anything about the difference between "social constructs" and "the laws of physics" etc. He is (correctly) pointing out the moderator's naive overly strong bias towards a materialistic/reductionist view of the mind as a causal product of biology. Of course there are innate differences between men and women. Nobody except a bunch of radical gender studies dorks would deny that. The real question is about what the PRECISE RANGE of different behaviours/abilities which people can (or cannot) acquire over the course of their lives may be, and how those are related to their innate differences, i.e. which abilities may be said to be ALLOWED FOR by which innate features. So when you say "The "different education" and the "social construct" that differentiate men from women exist exactly because they are based on innate differences (biological);" you are merely begging the question as long as you cannot say what exactly "based on" means. (The same problem occurs when people say that the brain "determines" thought. There is a big difference between causal and logical determination.) There is currently no conclusive scientific evidence available which could give a satisfying answer to this, much of which is due to the fact that the problem is to a large extent conceptual in nature and can thus not be clarified by science alone, like the moderator would apparently like it to be the case.
CzechRiot (1 year ago)
The fact that the moderator is an idiot does not mean you're not one as well. Social and cultural influences DO SHAPE minds and brains, which DOES NOT mean all minds and brains are neutral balls of clay, all the same primal matter, just waiting to be molded and shaped by environmental events. The main problem with most people on most subjects is the need to oversimplify things too much. Specially on tv shows, quite often the subject is posed as "is it _this_ or is it _that_??", as if things had to exclusively be one or the other. The main reason why this whole "social construct" thing has gotten so much attention in the last years, is that too many people have been born and brought up in too civilized-capitalist environments. Where most "real world" issues are taken care of by others, who are more in touch with "the real reality", where the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc cannot be overruled. Within the model of society that has been reached, it is irrelevant whether someone is a male or female, a 12 year old or 50 year old, in terms of what is permitted and what capabilities are needed in order to "perform" as a citizen (even though it's been decided that people under certain ages are not permitted to perform many tasks, although they ARE CAPABLE of). You can find many 12 year old who are great musicians, great dancers, little geniuses in science, etc. If _a job_ consists basically of using a computer and talking to some people, many 12 year olds would even be better than 50 year olds. But a 12 year old is VERY DIFFERENT than a 50 year old, in MANY aspects, although it would be redundant and silly to be trying to ignore these differences by highlighting every similarity, or even by highlighting all talents and traits that a certain 12 year old has which is superior to those of a certain 50 year old. It's the same stupidity with these men vs women debates, where proponents of "equality" try to highlight the similarities or overexpose exceptional cases as some sort of "proof" that women are just as good or even superior than men at certain tasks. The "different education" and the "social construct" that differentiate men from women exist exactly because they are based on innate differences (biological); and like I said, the main reason why these differences are less relevant nowadays is because the technology mechanisms and civilized social structures take care of the real work, and people operate these machines and deal with these structures without too much effort, just like a 12 year old girl or a 40 year old 300 pound man can _democratically_ write a comment here on Youtube, either saying something technical and well written, or with murder threats and aggression.
WhyT (2 years ago)
Every single one of the "boffins" (*) on this panel -- even when they disagree with each other -- repeatedly tells him that his idea of biology being destiny ("human nature") is overly simplistic and misguided. So it's pretty clear who's the one with the cognitive dissonance here. You would have to be completely tone and content deaf not to realize that he has a preconceived notion of the role of biology that he wants to be true at all costs. (*) You can tell he's an idiot from that choice of a word alone, but also from his over-exuberant intonation and childish attempts to inject "jokes" into pretty much every single sentence in his exposition.
Hammerhook12 (2 years ago)
You're listening to this with a cognitive dissonance..
Cecil Henry (2 years ago)
Well, 18th century truths remain true in the 21st century. But alas, 'Diversity means everyone MUST think alike about 'diversity'.
Matthew Morton (2 years ago)
lol thanks for pointing that out. I was banging my head against the desk every time she used that as her argument xD "Was the idea thought of prior to modern times? THEN IT MUST BE WRONG!!!" .......dafuq lady O.o I think she's got some bitterness against the past
Jake Dean (2 years ago)
is the brain flipped in the wrong position in the still for this video or am I seeing this wrong??
thetwotwelves (2 years ago)
Good debate. I always enjoy hearing Helena Cronin speak, but everyone had interesting things to say. Is the Q&A posted anywhere?
farhan qureshi (2 years ago)
Aree уоu mаaaaking thesе mistakеs with уour man? https://twitter.com/aa553651fdb95b460/status/804693412402241537 How MMen and Wоoоmeеn Think FULL DЕEЕЕBATЕ
+thetwotwelves Hi! Unfortunately the Q&A sessions are not recorded. But you can see Helena Cronin giving a great talk about 'Sex, Science and Stereotypes' here: http://iai.tv/video/sex-science-and-stereotypes Thanks for watching!

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